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#344324 - 03/14/10 12:53 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
karl Offline


Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2505
It seems pretty clear you are currently opposed to using earthquakes as a warning sign of Christ's soon coming. If you're not opposed to warnings in general, maybe you could go with just a generic warning. The close of probation comes for each person at the end of his life, and convulsions of nature can end people's lives prematurely.

"How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man, but in them all God's purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger."--PK 277

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#344396 - 03/14/10 03:47 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 2921
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger."--PK 277


Man has been in danger since the flood or whenever Adam and Eve fell. So is the 'sense' of danger about every day or 'end time'?

When do we stop the focus on 'events' and turn it towards our everyday lives?

What are you more likely to die of, falling out of the sky, crossing the street, a tornado, flood, car crash, trains, earthquakes, ice age, new global heat, murder by someone, etc, etc?

Could earthquakes have been used as a metaphor because of time and place, familiarity with event?

What was Christ trying to tell people???????????????????


Edited by CoAspen (03/14/10 05:06 PM)
_________________________
Humans are not rational by definition, but they can think and behave rationally or not, depending on whether they apply, explicitly or implicitly, the strategy of theoretical and practical rationality to the thoughts they accept and to the actions they perform.

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#344411 - 03/14/10 05:02 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 2521
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Lineman
I hate to take us back, but I feel we really need to look at what has been said above closely.

I have an issue with what Bob has shared with us. Bob, you are saying that these EGW comments are telling us that earthquakes ARE signs of Christ's soon coming, but I do NOT read that in them at all.


She argues that "every calamity" by land and by sea (and it is hard to argue that earthquakes killing 250,000 people is not a calamity) are a sign - calling us to wake up to the fact that the end is near and that we are in danger of being unpreprared.


Quote:

They are to awaken us to our danger, yes, but is this danger only that Jesus is coming or that we should be ready to die at any moment?


This point actually came up in our Sabbath School yesterday - the answer is that while it is true that "I could die any moment" is a thought that gives the same sense of urgency -- we would be a total wreck if we went around proclaiming as our evangelistic message "I could die before this evening, I could die tomorrow, I could die by the end of the week" ... etc.

It would destroy our witness and it would over time ruin our Christian walk. It is actually much healthier to get the same "awakened to the danger" result by focusing on the nearness of the 2nd coming and the signs of the time -- rather than constantly stir up yourself over the sobering thought "I could die by this evening".

God had the right solution.


Notice that instead of saying "Every calamity reminds us to wake up to the fact that we can die at any moment so we should be ready... but we should not view every calamity as a sign that the end is near" we actually have this -

Quote:

Maranatha 220
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter02774.htm

Chap. 212 - High Time to Awake!

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Rom. 13:11, 12.

The great controversy is nearing its end. Every report of calamity by sea or land is a testimony to the fact that the end of all things is at hand. Wars and rumors of wars declare it. Is there a Christian whose pulse does not beat with quickened action as he anticipates the great events opening before us? The Lord is coming. We hear the footsteps of an approaching God. {Mar 220.1}



"Nearing it's end" -- "end of all things is at hand". AND these "every calamity" signs are placed on par with "Wars and rumors of wars" that are said to declaring the same "end of all things is at hand" message.

No wonder John says "this is the last hour".

"The Lord is coming. We hear His footsteps" is a very different (and much more positive) message than "I could die tonight, tomorrow, by the end of the week". In fact after the close of probation one of the key promises is that "you CANNOT DIE" if you are a saved saint alive at that time.

The "I could die today" solution is not the focus that you see in the NT as much as the message that "at a time such as you think not the Master will come - so be ready".

in Christ,

Bob


Edited by BobRyan (03/14/10 05:09 PM)

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#344416 - 03/14/10 05:16 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 2921
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
It would destroy our witness and it would over time ruin our Christian walk. It is actually much healthier to get the same "awakened to the danger" result by focusing on the nearness of the 2nd coming and the signs of the time -- rather than constantly stir up yourself over the sobering thought "I could die by this evening".


What is the difference? Which is more 'near', everyday events or some phenomenon that has been happening for thousands of years?

Destroy 'witness' by tying catastrophes to second coming of Christ, when it is unknown by Christ himself, or simply teaching people to live everyday as if it were their last? Which is more realistic?
Or is it just an excuse to try and find that 'endtime' point?

Which is the Saviour, events or Christ?
_________________________
Humans are not rational by definition, but they can think and behave rationally or not, depending on whether they apply, explicitly or implicitly, the strategy of theoretical and practical rationality to the thoughts they accept and to the actions they perform.

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#344417 - 03/14/10 05:16 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 10548
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
"Wolf! Wooolff!!"
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In my tribe it is customary to support our assertions with evidence.

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#344514 - 03/14/10 10:36 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Bravus]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 21689
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Bravus
"Wolf! Wooolff!!"


Amen
_________________________
Lord, make me the person my dog thinks I am.
“When the enemy comes in like a flood, and seeks to overwhelm you with the thought of your sin, tell him: "I know I am a sinner. If I were not, I could not go to the Saviour.” 1 SM 325
"Christ will always accept the faith that puts its trust in Him." - Andrew Murray (1828-1917)
I believe in Hematology.


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#344701 - 03/15/10 02:01 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Woody]
karl Offline


Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2505
Originally Posted By: Woody
Originally Posted By: Bravus
"Wolf! Wooolff!!"


Amen


Yeah, there's nothing going on. Let's just get on with our lives.

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#344705 - 03/15/10 02:15 PM Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
SivartM Online   willy_nilly
*nods emphatically*


Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 2569
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
There was an earthquake!!!! It's the end of the world!!! Run for your lives!!!!!!!

:D
_________________________
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus

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