It's been my observation and experience that youth groups are even more evangelistic than Pathfinders because they are not so demanding. Kids from broken homes find it difficult to attend anything regularly, so a youth group is better suited for them because there's no worrying or pressure about missing a class or a practice. The idea is just to make friends and be welcoming.

I feel like I need one of Pam's "drinking his coffee by the computer" smilies right about now...

Interesting comments! :)

I don't think I said that Pathfinders was given by God. I certainly never intended to say that. My intent was only to say that the responsibility for upbringing (which includes spending oodles of time and money--more importantly time) is God given.

I agree, it is only a tool.

AY and/or youth groups can be just as fun as Pathfinders. I agree. Not sure how much your Pathfinder group charges, but it's not really a costly function in our church. We average about $30 a year per Pathfinder. Most families can cover that cost--and for those that can't, I and a few others will pick up the tab.

Not sure how "militaristic" your Pathfinder group experiences have been, but I can assure you, our's is not militaristic in any sense other than wearing uniforms and learning marching drills.

Anyway. I've somehow derailed this thread by defending the Pathfinder organisation. Never meant to do that, either.

I think it's great that churches have an active AY and/or youth group program. Our's does not. We have the Pathfinder organisation and this is the only group with which I am familiar. No one has offered a youth group or AY program at our church. Believe me, I'd be thrilled if they did!

My point is only that if we do not want Adventist education to fail, if we do not want to lose our children to the things of the world, then we, as adults need to step up to bat and offer them something better in it's stead.

It is our responsibility to train the youth, to bring them up into a life with an ever-present focus on God. If we would spend our time and our money on these kids, if we would make them a top priority in life, we can bring them into a relationship with God.

It doesn't have to be Pathfinders, it doesn't have to be AY or a youth group, it doesn't have to be Sabbath School or special interest clubs; but it does have to be something. Whatever that something is, it has to be led by people who care, by people who are willing to put children as a top priority in life. Those people need the support of others to make it happen.

I have not seen AY used as outreach. In the churches I have attended, AY is a Sabbath afternoon service that is organized and ran by the youth. It is very much tied to Adventism. It would be great if it could be used for outreach but I would think inviting someone to AY would be very much like inviting someone to church service or prayer meeting.

Pathfinders is much more like Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. Most people do not feel like we are trying to play a bait and catch when we invite them (and we shouldn't be). Pathfinders really is a way to reach out to the community and provide a positive contribution to it.

Just got back from an AY outing the end of June.

There were more non-SDA than SDAs .... it was at some rustic cabins.(We brought our trailer). Some of the youth were smokers. But, they need to learn about Jesus also. I was happy they felt comfortable coming. Some I had become acquainted with last year. So it was good to see them again. But this is a good opening.

If you had looked at our group you would have clearly said that they ain't Adventists. Well .... the majority weren't.

I have never even been involved with a church, or a conference that I know of, that had AY outings. The only AY I am familiar with is Sabbath afternoon service. This sounds like a well kept secret.

It's called thinking outside the box. We don't have to limit ourselves to the way things have always been done.

Neither AY nor youth groups charge anything. Pathfinders charges sometimes, but I don't know how much and it's not consistent. But the total uniform is about $100. A huge chunk (in my budget) for something that's worn a few times and quickly outgrown.

(I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but I don't believe in charging for church activities. Doing so makes it exclusive in nature, which is contrary to our mission. Ministries should have a budget that covers their expenses. Hmm, I guess calling something a "club" also makes it exclusive.)

So, who pays for the electricity when your AY or youth group meets? Everything costs money. It's likely there's a line item in your church budget that pays for any incidental expenses incurred by AY or youth group gatherings. Sabbath schools have line items in the budget, as do VBS and Women's Ministries, Men's Ministries, Deaconess functions, and so on and so forth. I would love to see a line item for the Pathfinder group as well--one the would cover the costs of doing activities together.

We could call it a Pathfinder group. It is not exclusive in any way.

Uniform costs don't have to be so high. I know of a group that has a system in place where the uniforms are "handed down" from year to year as the Pathfinders outgrow them. By the way, that same church is very involved with the youth programs. They do have a line item for the Pathfinders in the church budget. All expenses are paid for in advance--through fundraising by the Pathfinders, by their parents and by the church members. They have a strong group of about 20 Pathfinders, they have 3 leaders and have been a strong group for nearly 30 years now. At least half the membership in their group is from the community--most of those go on to receive baptism and their families join the church. What's more, they are from one of the poorest areas in our conference.

All it takes is dedication to the youth. Everyone may not have money, but everyone does have time.

I agree! Change can happen everywhere. Taking a quick look at the history of Pathfinders, it's easy to see all the changes that have been made over the years. From the very beginning, it's clear to see how intertwined Pathfinders are with AY--in fact, some might say so intertwined, they are one in the same thing.

1907
Missionary Volunteer Society was founded

1908
Junior Reading Course
First MV Day, March 7 1909 Junior MV Societies were formed

1911
MV Leaflet Series began

1922
JMV (now AJY) Progressive Classes introduced particularly Friend and Companion classes
A. W. Spalding and Harriet Hold advocate basic idea of Pathfinder Clubs

1926
The first junior camp was held in USA (Town Line Lake, Michigan)

1927
Master Comrade (now Master Guide) was officially approved

1928
Southern California's first youth camp, San Gabriel Canyon
Vocational honors introduced

1929
"Pathfinder" name first used at a summer camp in Southeastern California

1930
Pre-JMV/AJY classes developed 1931
First Master Comrade Investiture

1932
First JMV Pathfinder Camp, Idyllwild, purchased

1938
Master Comrade Manual published

1946
The first conference-sponsored Pathfinder Club in Riverside, California
Pathfinder Club emblem designed by John H. Hancock

1947
The first North American Division Youth Congress was held in San Francisco

1948
Helen Hobbs made the Pathfinder flag
First area Pathfinder coordinators appointed (Central California Conference)

1949
Henry Bergh composed the Pathfinder song

1950
General Conference authorized the JMV Pathfinder clubs for world field
Pathfinder Staff Training Course and How to Start a Pathfinder Club booklet was published
Explorer class added

1951
The first Pathfinder Fair was held on September 23 in Dinuba, California
Master Comrade was changed to Master Guide
Pathfinder Staff Manual published

1952
Pathfinder song copyrighted

1954
The first Pathfinder Camporee was held on May 7-9 in Idyllwild, California

1957
JMV Pathfinder Day was added to the church calendar

1960
The first Union Camporee was held on April 11-14, Lone Pine, California

1962
MV Pathfinder Field Guide published
Pathfinder Drill Manual published

1963
John Hancock elected as World Pathfinder Director

1965
JMV Handbook was combined with Master Guide Manual as MV Handbook

1966
Pioneer Class was added
The first North American MV Camp Directory was published

1970
Pioneer Class name was changed to Ranger Class (8th Grade)

1974
The Pathfinder Staff Manual was revised and expanded

1979
Missionary Volunteer (MV) was changed to Adventist Youth (AY)
Junior Missionary Volunteer (JMV) was changed to Adventist Junior Youth (AJY)
The Pre-AJY class was changed to Adventurers Club(4 yrs. - 4th grade)

1980
Les Pitton was elected as North American Division (NAD) Youth Director
MV Camp Directory was changed to World Adventist Youth Camp Directory 1981
Pathfinders Sing Songbook was published

1982
The New Pathfinder World replaced the MV World
Voyager Class added
NAD Pathfinder uniform revised

1985
Norm Middag appointed as NAD Pathfinder Director
The first NAD Pathfinder Camporee was held in Camp Hale, Colorado, USA

1987
The current NAD Pathfinder emblem was designed by Norm Middag

1989
NAD Pathfinder Honors Manual revised, new were honors added
Friendship Camporee in Pennsylvania, sponsored by the Columbia Union
New AY Classwork Curriculum integrated in Pathfinder curriculum
Adventurer Program became an independent program from Pathfinders

1993
Restructuring resulted in Office of Pathfinder Ministries

1994
"Dare to Care" International Pathfinder Camporee, August 2-6, Denver, Colorado

1995
Teen Leadership Training (TLT) Program established for training High school students (grades 9-12)
First Pathfinder Web Site established
First Pathfinder Club web page, Fort Worth Eagles, Fort Worth, Texas

1996
Basic Staff Training, Pathfinder Leadership Award (PLA), & Pathfinder Instructor Award (PIA) curriculum developed

1997
Willie Oliver became a NAD Director of Pathfinder & Camp Ministries
NAD Pathfinder Honors Manual revised, new honors added
NAD Pathfinder Staff Manual updated

1999 NAD Pathfinder Web Site established
Discover the Power International Camporee held in Osh kosh WI (USA)

2000
Elder James Black appointed to be NAD Youth Ministries director, overseeing Youth, Pathfinder, Adventurer, and Camp Ministries
Pathfinder Uniform changed to Black & Tan

2001
AY Honor Handbook added 17 new Honors as well as several International Honors.

2003
NAD Youth Ministries developed a Website Community ministering to Youth, Pathfinders, Adventurers, and Camping Ministries (YPAC).

2004
NAD Pathfinder Ministries (under the leadership of James Black and Ron Whitehead) hosted the "Faith on Fire" International NAD Pathfinder Camporee in Oshkosh, WI (USA) on August 9 - 14, 2004.

2009
NAD to host the "Courage to Stand" International Pathfinder Camporee in Oshkosh, WI (USA) on August 11-15, 2009.